Using Taxonomy Manager without stripping custom term information (support session raw notes)

ben
7:20 PM

i am trying to work with taxonomy manager and am desperate
7:21 PM

many of the terms pointed by the drop down list are empty and do not match the historical good terms which are populated
7:21 PM

how come
7:21 PM

about brasil
Benjamin Melançon
7:22 PM
yes...
Pierre George
7:23 PM
how come?
Benjamin Melançon
7:23 PM
how come what?
Pierre George
7:23 PM
*see case of colombia
7:23 PM

case of pakistan
7:24 PM

where do those high number empty term come from
7:24 PM

where and who generates them?
7:24 PM

why do they pollute the drop down list ?
Benjamin Melançon
7:26 PM
here's a trick... ok, a couple of workarounds to see what's really happening
7:26 PM

when you go to a place, like Pakistan
7:26 PM

replace the 'place' in the url with 'taxonomy/term'
7:27 PM

that will give you the full listing rather than the modified place display
7:27 PM

and *then* when you see apparently nameless content
Pierre George
7:27 PM
pakistan is 2616 whereas actions are in 223 merged from 1772
Benjamin Melançon
7:28 PM
if you hover over some links you can see a number
Pierre George
7:28 PM
i am lost .... bne
7:28 PM

where is the logic in all this ?
Benjamin Melançon
7:28 PM
you can then go to node/ that number to take a look at that content, and node/
7:28 PM

node/#/edit to see what that content is
7:28 PM

you asked a question, I'm trying to show you how it can be answered
Pierre George
7:29 PM
i do not understand for the moment ...
7:29 PM

the system of places seems to have hidden mechanisms that i do not grasp
7:29 PM

why would new synonym of existing term appear ??
Benjamin Melançon
7:30 PM
that wasn't the question you asked
Pierre George
7:30 PM
this seems meaningless having an autocomplete that is supposed to channel on old terms
7:30 PM

well then that is the question i ask now, if i was not clear
Benjamin Melançon
7:31 PM
we have been through this before also
Pierre George
7:31 PM
well ben if I do not understand this .... who will
7:32 PM

so you should take a little patience and really try to explain what is happening ...
Benjamin Melançon
7:32 PM
ok you say Pakistan already existed... where?
Pierre George
7:32 PM
today i got the hint about parents ... in the edit term page OK
7:32 PM

but this does not seem to be enough to tame the beast
7:32 PM

now pakistan
Benjamin Melançon
7:32 PM
yes, what about it
Pierre George
7:33 PM
when you click on drop donw list you are led to an * empty* 2616 term
7:33 PM

i have no notion of when and why this term was generated
7:33 PM

what i know for sure is that you will also find pakinsta in 1772 and 222
7:33 PM

with some actions there
Benjamin Melançon
7:34 PM
that's what I was walking you through, so you would know how I found out how it was created
Pierre George
7:36 PM
my point is that i do not want this to happen....
Benjamin Melançon
7:36 PM
it was created by a person putting Pakistan, apparently with a couple dashes
7:36 PM

unless you added those?
Pierre George
7:37 PM
i might have done that in efforts to merge things out of control
7:37 PM

do not remember...
Benjamin Melançon
7:37 PM
you're not helping
Pierre George
7:38 PM
well you have to be in my shoes , i am using a system with parameters i am discovering progressively and some still seem to be hidden ....
7:38 PM

i know for sure that there are two actions located in pakistan
7:39 PM

let us find them ... and see where they are
Benjamin Melançon
7:40 PM
222 is not pakistan
7:40 PM

neither is 223
Pierre George
7:40 PM
i just put the dashes because i was hoping to make up this bad pakistan from good ones
Benjamin Melançon
7:40 PM
nor 1772
Pierre George
7:40 PM
1772 disappeared because it was merged
7:41 PM

it is 233
7:41 PM

there i put the two actions that were originally one in 233 the other in 1772
7:41 PM

now why is 26xx appearing i have no idea
7:42 PM

2616 appears from external reason
7:43 PM

and i was just willing to merge it into 233 that is why i put the dashes
7:43 PM

but i will soon stop all this if i do not get a clear picture .... and let things adrift
Benjamin Melançon
7:44 PM
ok
Pierre George
7:44 PM
so my question is why is pakistan 2616 appearing ? when only 233 should be left visible in the drop down
how to avoid this
Benjamin Melançon
7:44 PM
so 233, Pakistan with no extra marks, is NOT showing up in the drop down, correct?
Pierre George
7:44 PM
yes
Benjamin Melançon
7:45 PM
That means it is *not really a country* as far as the system is concerned
7:45 PM

so as we went over the other day, you click on 'edit term'
Pierre George
7:45 PM
so let me see if it has parents
Benjamin Melançon
7:45 PM
make sure it is selected as Country
7:45 PM

down at Level: Country/Region
7:45 PM

and save (Submit) it
7:46 PM

I'm doing that right now
7:46 PM

Making sure it has no parents is also a good idea
Pierre George
7:46 PM
what i though i had to do is that i click on < root> in the parent window
7:46 PM

to clear any parent
Benjamin Melançon
7:46 PM
not even root, make sure nothing is selected
7:47 PM

(shouldn't make a difference)
Pierre George
7:47 PM
what was the case for 233
Benjamin Melançon
7:47 PM
but that's what I had you do today, but that's to prepare things for merging
7:47 PM

now the real Pakistan is showing up in the dropdown list, see?
7:48 PM

if it hadn't been cleared of its Country status (by being messed with in Taxonomy manager, that's the only way)
7:48 PM

then the autocomplete would have worked. But (and we've been through this) the autocomplete only completes for terms at its level, so that Georgia the country and Georgia the state are separate terms
Pierre George
7:49 PM
so autocomplete is level reliable
Benjamin Melançon
7:49 PM
so, again, taxonomy manager and place levels don't play well together very well
7:50 PM

so we should always take care to check off just the term we want to get rid of (so just check off one term)
7:50 PM

first make sure that term doesn't have parents when it shouldn't
Pierre George
7:50 PM
take colombia 2605 341
Benjamin Melançon
7:50 PM
and then merge it into the term we want to keep (but don't check this term off, just type it into taxonomy_manager's autocomplete, which of course is not level speciffic)
7:51 PM

So I'm clicking on JUST "Pakistan -" in taxonomy manager
7:51 PM

I'm checking off "Collect all children of selected terms and add it to the merged term"
7:51 PM

under Resulting merged term: I'm typing "Pak"
7:52 PM

and selecting "Pakistan" from its suggestions
Pierre George
7:52 PM
ah i ALWAYS Check this in
Benjamin Melançon
7:52 PM
and clicking Merge
7:52 PM

yeah, you always want to check off that middle one.
7:52 PM

So it says "Terms merged"
Pierre George
7:52 PM
i always check it IN
Benjamin Melançon
7:53 PM
? not following?
Pierre George
7:53 PM
i am saying that up to now when doing a merge i always ask to Collect all children of selected terms and add it to the merged term"
7:54 PM

is that wrong?
Benjamin Melançon
7:54 PM
And now I'm double checking (on a new page, or on node/555), Pakistan is still in the dropdown. All is well, it is still considered a country-- I haven't damaged it using Taxonomy manager as I have just described
Pierre George
7:54 PM
stop
Benjamin Melançon
7:54 PM
Yes, we always want to check that one off (and really that's the only one that needs to be checked off)
Pierre George
7:54 PM
check off means we want the option of we do not want it
7:55 PM

?
7:55 PM

(my english has limits)
7:56 PM

i tick the box means i check if off or check it "on"
7:56 PM

?
7:56 PM

ben
7:56 PM

i am not sure i understand what check off means
7:57 PM

where are you?
Benjamin Melançon
8:02 PM
means we DO want it
8:02 PM

they are all blank
8:02 PM

so when I say we check it off, yes that means turn it on
8:02 PM

(the change of state should be the context clue
Pierre George
8:02 PM
well i feel relieved
8:03 PM

since i have done that by myself out of observation
8:03 PM

tick = check off
8:03 PM

well now i go to colombia case
8:03 PM

to make a training
8:04 PM

take a look at term 341
8:04 PM

why is it not appearing on the drop down list ?? looking at it i do not see why
Benjamin Melançon
8:04 PM
but did you get the key detail there? That instead of "ticking" both terms, you only tick the term you want to replace (merge into) the other term
8:05 PM

and then you type the destination term in that box
Pierre George
8:05 PM
this i have always done ben
8:05 PM

i have done exactly as you say
Benjamin Melançon
8:05 PM
well, things should have been working then
Pierre George
8:05 PM
well they are not
Benjamin Melançon
8:05 PM
and I'm not sure I specified, that we should be ticking off one term, not two
8:05 PM

and they're working for me
Pierre George
8:06 PM
i tick the term i want to be merged then i write the term i want to merge in and i confirm with autocomplete
8:06 PM

that is what i do
8:06 PM

take a look at 341 what is wrong with it ?
8:07 PM

why is drop down showing 26xx instead
8:07 PM

for colombia
Benjamin Melançon
8:07 PM
ok, if you've made sure that the mergee (removed terms) are not children of the mergor
8:07 PM

that should be fine
Pierre George
8:07 PM
so i have to check parents of the mergee
Benjamin Melançon
8:07 PM
and then *after* you merge, you have to make sure that the term you want is of true Level: Country/Region
Pierre George
8:08 PM
why is that step necessary after the merge?
Benjamin Melançon
8:08 PM
if it's done right it shouldn't be
8:08 PM

but if a country is not showing up in a country list, when it ought to
Pierre George
8:08 PM
if the two term appears in the drop down it is supposed to be ok ?
8:08 PM

(before merge)
Benjamin Melançon
8:09 PM
it means that it has been 'touched' in Taxonomy Manager in such a way that it has lost it's country level-ness
Pierre George
8:09 PM
ok pls check 341
8:09 PM

and tell me what is wrong with it
8:10 PM

(if for some reason it has lost its country levelness we just put it back by the drop down country.region ?)
Benjamin Melançon
8:11 PM
yes, but only through the regular edit term link
Pierre George
8:11 PM
(that has been assimilated in the guinea pig way ...)
Benjamin Melançon
8:11 PM
If I could get it to work on taxonomy manager, we wouldn't have this problem
8:11 PM

yes, so Colombia isn't listed, so go to edit term and fix it!
Pierre George
8:12 PM
i cope with this .... now pls 341 your diagnosis
Benjamin Melançon
8:12 PM
341 is Colombia
8:12 PM

click on edit term
Pierre George
8:12 PM
done
8:13 PM

so what?
8:13 PM

there are no parents and the level is country region
Benjamin Melançon
8:13 PM
(the symptom is that it isn't in Country dropdown and other lists, correct? So that means it has lost it's country level-ness)
Pierre George
8:13 PM
but it does not show this in the edit page
8:13 PM

it says level country region
Benjamin Melançon
8:13 PM
it may appear that way but country is the default-- so if it isn't showing in the country list, that means for CERTAIN that it isn't really
8:13 PM

so you must submit the form
Pierre George
8:14 PM
not doing anything else..
Benjamin Melançon
8:14 PM
and the prognosis? will the patient live?
Pierre George
8:15 PM
nope does not appear on diorp down list
8:15 PM

only 2605 is visible in colombia
8:15 PM

( and besides you are explaining how to take the fever down , but now why the virus is there)
Benjamin Melançon
8:16 PM
yes i have told you-- it is taxonomy manager that strips the special level information
Pierre George
8:16 PM
it means reviewing all the countries and going to cure any ill country showing a high number empty coutnry page
8:17 PM

but this is a weird job...
8:17 PM

and the colombia case stays unresolved
Benjamin Melançon
8:19 PM
what do you mean? It's there in the dropdown.
Pierre George
8:19 PM
well ther are two colombias now in taxonjomu manager
8:19 PM

but is pointing on 2605
8:19 PM

but there is hope since there are two colombias in the taxonomy manager list
8:20 PM

( when i say drop down i understand it is the drop down you creazted countries page)
8:20 PM

not taxonomy list
Benjamin Melançon
8:21 PM
ok, so I cliked on edit term *there*
8:21 PM

renamed it to "Colombia to be merged"
8:22 PM

and now both can appear
8:22 PM

and it's pretty clear how to get rid of the new unwanted one
8:22 PM

(and actually I've looked and the country dropdown list OUGHT to list both, even if they have the same name, but it doesn't. Beats me.)
Pierre George
8:23 PM
???
8:23 PM

see.. you learn also things here
Benjamin Melançon
8:23 PM
the part in parenthesis is in parenthesis because It's not important
8:24 PM

we sort of have to rename the term we want to get rid of anyway in order to identify it
Pierre George
8:25 PM
so you gave me a recipee for correcting an " random" (apparently random) problem ....
8:25 PM

(that is hwy i put the dashes ben)
8:25 PM

to identify those i want to get rid of)
Benjamin Melançon
8:25 PM
ok, just to be clear here
8:26 PM

duplicate term names won't be created unless they've lost their taxonomy information because of being edited unnecessarily in taxonomy manage
8:26 PM

or if they are actually being created at different levels (generally user error)
Pierre George
8:27 PM
that means the whole system is not enough robust to cope with user errors (and admin lack of experience in my case)
8:27 PM

.....and it generates problems to be solved
8:28 PM

anyway
8:28 PM

the main problem i see for now to be postivie
8:28 PM

is about the find action search interface
8:28 PM

where the mess of the four level coutnry region town code appears and dismays
8:29 PM

that is why i have put an issue this morning suggesting to have four field specialized with capacity to put an autocomplete with fixed lelve in eahc of them
Benjamin Melançon
8:29 PM
so the main way to prevent the issue as we just had with Colombia is not to let it be missing from the list
8:29 PM

Resolution